Friday, February 02, 2007

my argument w/zealotina

I got some kick ass, wicked responses to this post, including some scathing remarks from someone representing zealotina perhaps. ya gotta love the broad's moxie! I have NOT removed the post. I have re-saved it as a draft so that I can properly respond this weekend. she actually made some very ponder-able points. mind you 90% of them infuritated me as I obviously did the same. still... more to come.


Anonymous said...

When you repost that comment and blog entry, would you please repost them in their entirety, not altered as you did the blog entry it refers to. Thanks.

"jew" "girl" said...

I'm not going to change a word. do not worry. it's not that I intended to alter it per say.

when I posted it, I edited a few things down and I did change a few things. all of which I do plan to explain, not justify.

John said...

God, (We're on a first name basis so it is cool - he does call me Johnny some times and it pisses me off) I love people who complain, but don't use their name. Man, that takes balls to be both bitchy and faceless.



Anonymous said...

perhaps you can explain to John why "we" visit other people's blogs anonymously.
If you don't like the "anonymous" tag you can call me "Mr. L."

John said...

"We" don't really need an explaination "Mr. L" since we (royal we) always us our(still royal, but I hope you get it) name on our messages. If you have something to say - sing out with your name. Otherwise, you really shouldn't since then it is just a rant in the dark without the backbone to stand by your remarks (this is a general blank statement not directed specifically at you, but at the use of anonymous postings).

My remarks and comments are always attributed to me and can be tracked to me. I don't hide in the back of the room and yell out remarks in the crowd.

By the way, Mr. L is the same as anonymous unless you have become the only L in the world sir.

Mr. C

Writeprocrastinator said...

"I would point out that you have violated her rights by posting direct quotes from her blog (you seem to be quite the proponent of rights). There is no valid excuse for this, so don’t bother with a feeble answer."

So you would want Katie to quote her out of context, when she discusses her?

"America has never been a democracy. As the other woman pointed out, we live in a republic."

As I always say, "semantics are little tricks that people use to cover up their antics." Every conservative from Goldwater through Buchannon and even O'Reilly, has called America a "democracy." As in, "this is the greatest democracy on Earth."

Let's not take my word for it, let's try the ol' Merriam-Webster online

1 a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
2 : a political unit that has a democratic government

Anonygal said...


While I don't agree with the talking heads on either side of the aisle (I haven't yet found one I can respect), stating that America is a democracy is untrue no matter who says it.

If we're going to define a democracy, then let's also be open minded enough to include the definition of a republic shall we?

From Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of Law:

Function: noun

1 : a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president; also : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government

2 : a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law; also : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government"

A basic knowledge of our government will show that we do indeed live in a republic.

Even our Pledge of Allegiance (wich I have serious problems with) states "...And to the republic, for which it stands..."

Stating "facts" without checking into their truth does nothing for a discussion.

Coaster Punchman said...

Katie, thanks for posting this interesting dialogue. Despite our obvious strong dislike for each other ("our" meaning we liberals who don't want anyone suffering invidious discrimination vs. Kristians who would like to put gays (and probably Jews) in concentration camps) it is remarkable that we are able to debate this in public without fear of going to jail (unless the Kristians win, of course!) At least on this we should have some common ground.

Writeprocrastinator said...

"While I don't agree with the talking heads on either side of the aisle (I haven't yet found one I can respect), stating that America is a democracy is untrue no matter who says it."

Good gravy...

Whew, okay. Pick an American politician, in the past or current, that you respect or find the most credible. Then, Google their name and the word "democracy." Outside of Honest Abe bringing it up in a speech here and there, you'll find the consensus is that they have stated that we live in a democracy.

Pick a Christian college if you don't want to go that route and email their political and history professors, ask them if we live in a democracy or a republic.

"Stating "facts" without checking into their truth does nothing for a discussion."

Um, yeah, you win. Sorry to bother you while you battle windmills.

"jew" "girl" said...

good gravy? I love when wp says that.

and, of course, wp, clever, witty and insightful as always. you're a honey!

"jew" "girl" said...

excellent point, cp. you're right. ya da best, kid.

Anonygal said...

If we're googling, how about running "republic vs. democracy"?

You'll find that as a republic which elects representatives (hello? Senators? Congressmen? All of the other government officials you vote for to represent you?), everyone then is allowed a voice, from the largest groups down to the smallest. Often times the smallest groups have the biggest voices because of this.

Democracy is majority rule, plain and simple. Every single law would be put to a majority vote (scary thought indeed), instead of by our representatives who have the time and (hopefully) put in the effort to read the fine print. With only a few of the many laws being put to a public vote. With the way laws are passed anymore, you'd spend half your life in a polling booth if we were living in a democracy!

Or you can keep up with the "democracy because they say so" argument. No skin off my nose. I just prefer to study issues for myself than believe whatever I'm told.


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